Just rambling, People, Sharing views, Thinking hat

Discussion or argument? #MondayMusings

I’ve often seen that while people feign they’re up for some healthy discussion regarding any matter, soon the whole exercise becomes futile by their sheer belligerence and unpreparedness to accept a point of view that doesn’t agree with theirs.

In no time, to keep up our side of the deal, we end up justifying ourselves to them when they aren’t willing to even hear us out. Aggression, a high pitched tone or not giving the other person a chance to speak doesn’t make anyone right. Does it?

I find this whole thing very draining. May be that’s why I never scored well in GDs too. I refused to scream and be dragged into ugly arguments by my team members when the topic was something else to begin with. For the same reason I’ve tried to keep my blog free of any ‘volatile’ stuff too.

To get answers and solutions we need to pay heed to every angle in a situation. Losing an argument is anytime a better option than being part of a long fruitless discussion.

What are your thoughts on this? 

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  1. I like to hear other points of view on things. Heck, I even take a look at Infowars every once in a while. I think it’s good to get out of our bubble and discover that there are vastly different ideas from our own. But I don’t want to argue… I don’t usually even enter the discussion. I just like to listen and try to understand something new, if possible.

    1. Exactly! I prefer being the silent spectator many times and imbibe all I can while others seem to be fighting it out. In fact just the first few moments decide if I’ll stick there or just leave.
      Thanks for the comment Paula!

      1. but isn’t that being selfish, you imbibe what everyone else says and do not share your thoughts on it!

        1. One can share thoughts if there’s a chance of being heard. Its not like I don’t do that at all, but I lose my patience in explainig my stand pretty quickly. People with a closed mind can’t possibly understand you anyway. Why bother?

          1. Something like make the cake and eat it too, but not share saying the cake is not tasty enough 😛

          2. Hahaha ????

            Ok, tell me. A certain De lady made fun of our players on social media and got ridiculed for it even by Mr Bachchan. Then suddenly I see her article lauding our deviyan who won medals. How can anyone have a decent conversation with such a person who changes his stance as it suits her?

          3. hahaa she had to be trolled! and as a repercussion she wrote the article she had no other go, take it as not a change of stance but a compulsion to keep up a public image .. in the given set of events, need to see this in the timeline. not as and isolated instance.

          4. That’s what I’m saying. Some people have hollow opinions only for people and they defend that too. That’s onw of the reasons why I get fed up of social media so soon. It makes people weirdly vocal about absolute nonsense.

          5. but if we let them be, god save the world!

          6. Ah well. There’s lots of trolls around. The world can breathe! ????????

  2. slightly problematic! argument is better than a discussion. Because an argument is where both parties can stack all their claims, and each of them can go back and refer to it later or at that time, and take a stand. So it is more transparent.

    1. The same can be done with a discussion too, without feeling like the other one will claw your face every time you disagree. Arguments turn into ego hassles real fast.

      1. oh ok! we are coming from different ends of the wire. You are talking about the emotions concerns and the common place dictionary meaning, I am talking about proper well rooted academic arguments. There is a difference. (I have post on it, will post soon ) Discussion then becomes heresay..

        1. Academic arguments have no end. Everyone is learned and has reasons to support their theory. I’m talking about the ones we see quite often in say our living rooms, dining tables or even friends.

          1. well, it is the same! if you ask me. That’s exactly what I said, the ends we are coming from is different.. so I can prove what I say write now, and you can take a stand on it. This is an argument not a discussion.

          2. Hmm…may be. I prefer to keep quiet and not carry the discussion further if I feel its getting tedious. ☺

          3. then what is the point of starting to talk in the first place!

          4. All talks aren’t meant to lead somewhere. All discussions don’t need to find answers. I say Rafi is good and you say Kishore. We discuus their work. Doesn’t mean any one of them is superior.

          5. Why should they be pitted against each other in the first place, because they were contemporaries. Their singing styles are different, so.. but in an argument you can stack everything about rafi, songs, awards and such, and I can stack every thing about kishore and then look back at it and say, what she says makes sense given what she has said.. so can stand for or against it.. argument. not an ego clash or to prove who is superior 🙂

          6. Why does this stacking part come in argument only? Discussions can’t do that? We can refer to data there too. We can always go back to it if we want.

          7. it is a definitional problem. 🙂 I can say somebody killed Indira Gandhi n 1984, but the right word would be assassinated. because it is the killing of a head of state!

          8. Right. Two similar words but with different meanings. I guess much like discussion and argument. ????

          9. slightly different meanings and overtones, it depends on what word you use for what to convey the meaning.

            Like for instance, I tell you Finally, I had food now. You would understand that there were a number of attempts at trying to eat before say noon (that’s the time now). Finally conveys that sense. I say, I had food now, then I’ll need to explain in yet another sentence or two my attempts 😀

          10. This using the right word is possibly where most people lose track of their own stand. Sometimes a definitive word isn’t right but they use it anyway, which again leads to a contradiction and another vicious circle of discussions and arguments.

          11. at the end of the day it is about language and its usage, everything can be sorted out with an ego-free open mind. if not then there is trouble. It is like this, if somebody say fine as an answer to my question of how are you, I need to lower my language level so that they understand what I am saying.. (elitist me, but that is how it is) 😀 😀

          12. Uh oh. Now I’m thinking whether you ever asked me that and what did I reply of you did! ????????????

          13. ha ha ha ha ha

          14. ????????

  3. Reblogged this on pins & ashes and commented:
    It is high time we understand that an argument is not a quarrel or a temper tantrum or generating random noise!

    It has a narrative logic to it and is a form of conversation where a person/s stacks a set of instances to prove a point. The fun is in the transparency of this stacking, the stacking of these instances and proving that point so that anybody who uses this same stack can take stand, similar, different or mixed when it is opened up for discussion to foster a participation. The multiple points of view and the discussion that follows gives us a kind of a cerebral orgasm, a befitting finale to a round of conversations.


    To the uninitiated, this is a fight because there is absolutely no culture of arguing out in many homes, schools and other work places. It is almost always discouraged. However, argument is an art that needs to be taught. It has to be differentiated from say, a street rabble. It may be a fight of ideas from different perspectives on an ideological plane.

    One of the lessons, a university life teaches a student is about this difference. It sensitizes us as a people.. we unlearn first, relearn. A certain amount of unlearning is necessary to live and then look out for the alternatives to the official dominant histories to get the whole picture so that we can argue it out if needed be to understand a given situation better 🙂 At the end of the day, we are richer in thought 🙂

    It is always fun to sit as a group and have a conversation. It could be about anything, it could be about different view points. We would talk about it, dominate a particular strand of thought, manipulate others into believing the bluff, survive (in the Darwinian sense)… act as a mediator, send the line of thought in an absolutely different direction, turn something on its head, bring in n number of examples to prove a point, rehearse another line of thought, bring another set of examples, take refuge in another’s view point, take that into our stride and prove our point again.. there are strategies, many ways, and a respect for each other. Nevertheless, at the end of those many hours, we are still friends but on a high…

    To an onlooker, it may look like a fight of words in the brewing, ready to erupt or that which has already erupted. They stand by, ready to dive in, to save the situation in case of an emergency. With voices raised, all at a time, a few towering over the rest, the rest restless to dive in to make a point, add to it the many gesticulations… somebody stands up with a restlessness, somebody tapping their feet in anticipation, another clawing their fingers into their skin … the scene is deceiving…

  4. 🙂 🙂 I cant help smiling after reading and cant resist to share a minor incident on FB. On one of Akhila’s blog I had made a simple statement like “There is nothing a person cannot do” and there was in gentleman and a gentlelady who started giving quality arguments like “can a person put back the paste withdrawn from toothpaste tube” and so on…Now there are two things :one is tark (logic) and other is kutark (absurdity) and when i notice later i just say “Have a great day ahead” and withdraw from the situation 🙂

    This is the reason i visit FB very less expect for posting some pic but have stopped posting opinion there. People cannot realize that both Modi and Kejriwal could have plus and minus points, for many they could be either best or worst…

    1. Oh I’ve had the same happen with me. It irritated me no end. I stopped putting status msgs on FB due to that. Ofcourse, now I’ve deactivated my account so one less thing to bother about.
      The thing is few people care about tark since having a kutark is much easier. Logic has some backing of knowledge I assume, whereas absurdity is like a bottomless well.

      1. Yes you are right…I read somewhere “if you argue with idiots they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience” and try to follow it 🙂

        Some people are more interested in winning an argument for the sake of it…and would not appreciate even a bit of what you want to convey…I am ready to accept someone’s point if i find merit in it coz i know i am not all in all and there are things i am not aware of.

        1. Yes. No one can know everything. The better thing would be to put 2 and 2 together and make it 4. Not to argue why it can’t be 22! ????

      2. Is here some big furniture market here just as we have panchkuiyan road in Delhi where one can get safas in reasonable rates. I am also trying amazon..

        1. No idea. There are many furniture shops, but a full market? Can’t really know.
          Do tell me if you find anything. Will need the info myself.

          1. Sur…Unfortunately we left our good but old sofa at rajkot as we thought it was too big for tiny flats here….:). Now relatives are coming (including sasurji) and so got ultimatum from wife dear 🙂 🙂

          2. Ha ha! Biwi ka hukum sar aankhon par. ????

          3. sar , aakho, dil, kidney, lungs sab pe 🙂 🙂

          4. ????????????

          5. One of my colleagues is telling that there is a big market in Ulhasnagar. will try that if possible 🙂

          6. There is, but its good only if you have someone in the know-how there. Rates and quality highly depend on that.

          7. I can see there is quite a range in amazon …fir transport bhi free ho jaata hai :). Its better not to spend too much on this thing and change then every couple of year to refresh drawing room 🙂

          8. Yes. Same logic as A. ????????

          9. 🙂 🙂 tark hai naa kutark toh nahi naa 🙂 🙂

          10. Nahi…tark hai isliye no argument. ????

          11. 🙂 🙂

          12. Last one we bought in Delhi for just Rs 6000/- it lasted 7 years and was still going fine… 🙂

          13. I haven’t seen this market yet. When we shift to our place I will need to look around too.

          14. Okay i will let you know my experience incase we go for ulhasnagar which is not very likely…amazon seems tempting 🙂

          15. Ok. ☺

          16. Yesterday i went to ambarnath to see a new residential project by Mohan’s group…The rates are reasonable (3 bhk 65 L , ameneties also good) but its sooo far…

          17. Yes. Ambernath is quite far.

          18. but near one homes one is getting peanuts for 1 crores !!! Its really a skewed market…I wish the same meltdown that happened to unreasonable properties in US happens here 🙂 🙂

          19. Property rates have stagnated a lot, but the whole builder lobby isn’t letting go. You should see how many projects are unsold.

          20. One of my friends is trying to sell his flat but finding no buyer…this lobby is really holding rates like anything..

          21. True.

          22. At Rajkot the drawing room was so big we used to play indoor cricket…:) 🙂

          23. Ha ha. Arre my whole apartment will fit into A’s native home’s living room. That is why many people don’t even visit us. They say its too crammed. ????

          24. Thats the reality here ..but if one thinks of settling here its best to have a flat of own..

          25. Ya. The rents are too steep and the stupid 11 month agreement is a killer. Every year the rent gets revised.

          26. Getting rent here is more difficult than purchasing a flat in Rajkot !! 🙂

          27. Haha…true! ☺

          28. Have you read Maximum City by Suketu Mehta ?

          29. No…its on my list. I’m majorly lagging behind on my reading.

          30. Reading it today…Have been reading it since shifting to mumbai in march ????

          31. Wow ????????

          32. ????????

          33. over 1.5 Lacs vacant ready properties are here but they are not reducing rates…

  5. arguments or discussion.. whatever it may be, if we have an open eye to observe the both sides/multi sides, things are easily manageable.

    1. Yes. We have to accept that everything is different from a different perspective and can be right both ways.

      1. and you know, in my case, many a time, it becomes more effective when I argue for the opposite..

        1. Hmm…read it…different perspective. Interesting.

  6. It’s all about how open u r with each other’s views, how you word, express, n voice them… Discussions n Arguments are healthy to learn about other persons perspective, because every person has a reason for saying what they are but when u totally disregard, disrespect and not try to understand what they are saying, that’s where d problem lies.

    When u end ur statement by saying, I might not agree to all what you are saying, but I understand where ur coming from. The whole discussion n argument becomes a fruitful exercise, that’s what I think ????

    1. Exactly. Two people can say different things and yet be both right. Things aren’t black and white always. If only we give others a chance to put forth their ideas and compare them with ours can we expect to grow.
      It is alright if people don’t agree with each other. There should be respect though.

  7. I think you are right…..but I have yet to learn that…:)

    1. You have yet to learn what? Btw, long time! Where have you been?

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